1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,840 [MUSIC PLAYING] 2 00:00:07,100 --> 00:00:12,620 There are folk artists who live in the forest 3 00:00:12,620 --> 00:00:15,770 and maybe never went to school and never owned 4 00:00:15,770 --> 00:00:20,150 a pair of shoes, and they can take a tree stump, 5 00:00:20,150 --> 00:00:23,110 and they can put eyes on it made out of rocks, 6 00:00:23,110 --> 00:00:27,170 and they can create something that will make you weep, 7 00:00:27,170 --> 00:00:29,920 that will genuinely move you. 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,330 But there's no such thing as a folk writer. 9 00:00:32,330 --> 00:00:34,250 You can't write unless you read. 10 00:00:42,090 --> 00:00:45,090 I was never a big reader when I was 11 00:00:45,090 --> 00:00:48,060 in high school and junior high school. 12 00:00:48,060 --> 00:00:49,530 I would read the books that we had 13 00:00:49,530 --> 00:00:52,380 to read for school, but it wasn't my inclination 14 00:00:52,380 --> 00:00:53,880 then to read for a book-- 15 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:58,020 I mean, to reach for a book. 16 00:00:58,020 --> 00:01:00,810 I wanted to be a visual artist, so I 17 00:01:00,810 --> 00:01:04,710 would spend time with my room drawing 18 00:01:04,709 --> 00:01:07,049 horrible, horrible drawings. 19 00:01:07,050 --> 00:01:10,560 And then I branched out into horrible, horrible paintings. 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,740 Never had any talent for it, worked on it 21 00:01:13,740 --> 00:01:18,990 the way I work on writing now, never improved. 22 00:01:18,990 --> 00:01:21,030 It didn't stop me. 23 00:01:21,030 --> 00:01:22,560 But it wasn't until I dropped out 24 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,300 of college that I started reading. 25 00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:29,070 And I was living in a small town in Oregon in a trailer, 26 00:01:29,070 --> 00:01:31,890 and I had no friends, and I went to the public library, 27 00:01:31,890 --> 00:01:33,580 and I got a library card. 28 00:01:33,580 --> 00:01:37,580 And I started by reading "Babbitt" by Sinclair Lewis 29 00:01:37,583 --> 00:01:39,003 because that was something we were 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,400 supposed to read in high school, and I didn't read it. 31 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,160 So I started by reading the books 32 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,620 that we were supposed to read in school, 33 00:01:46,620 --> 00:01:48,840 and then I just sort of branched out. 34 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,890 And the way that-- 35 00:01:50,885 --> 00:01:52,265 I would find a book that I liked, 36 00:01:52,260 --> 00:01:55,260 and then I would look at who blurbed the book, 37 00:01:55,260 --> 00:01:57,270 and then I would read their books. 38 00:01:57,270 --> 00:02:00,150 So that's how I discovered people. 39 00:02:00,150 --> 00:02:02,730 I didn't really have anybody who-- 40 00:02:02,730 --> 00:02:05,400 now I've got plenty of people in my life who will say, 41 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,400 oh, you need to read the new Ann Patchett novel, 42 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:08,880 oh, you need to read this and that, 43 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,220 and they're people who I trust, and I'm 44 00:02:11,220 --> 00:02:13,140 very grateful for the recommendations. 45 00:02:13,140 --> 00:02:17,460 But back then I was just sort of going at it blind. 46 00:02:17,460 --> 00:02:20,280 And one of the authors who I discovered early on who meant 47 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,870 a lot to me was Raymond Carver. 48 00:02:22,870 --> 00:02:25,440 And one of the reasons was that his sentences were 49 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,350 very simple and very short. 50 00:02:28,350 --> 00:02:31,050 And he was the kind of person that you could read 51 00:02:31,050 --> 00:02:33,910 and you would think, I can do this. 52 00:02:33,910 --> 00:02:36,300 There are no semicolons. 53 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:38,940 There aren't even a lot of commas. 54 00:02:38,940 --> 00:02:40,500 The people that he wrote about, I 55 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:45,020 felt as if I knew those people, and I thought, 56 00:02:45,022 --> 00:02:46,982 wow, you can just write about people like that? 57 00:02:46,980 --> 00:02:49,350 They don't have to be fancy people? 58 00:02:49,350 --> 00:02:54,310 They don't have to be necessarily bright people? 59 00:02:54,310 --> 00:02:59,580 And when I read over Raymond Carver now, 60 00:02:59,580 --> 00:03:04,090 I don't love him so much. 61 00:03:04,090 --> 00:03:07,410 I mean, I don't dislike him, but I can understand as a young man 62 00:03:07,410 --> 00:03:12,210 what I saw there and what was so encouraging 63 00:03:12,210 --> 00:03:15,270 to me about his writing. 64 00:03:15,270 --> 00:03:18,600 And I think that's really good when you're first starting off, 65 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,620 to start with somebody who makes writing seem possible. 66 00:03:22,618 --> 00:03:24,658 And again, you read Raymond Carver and you think, 67 00:03:24,660 --> 00:03:27,430 I can do this, and then you realize, 68 00:03:27,430 --> 00:03:32,530 oh, I actually can't because I don't have a story to tell. 69 00:03:32,530 --> 00:03:36,090 But I think, also, it's really normal when you first start off 70 00:03:36,090 --> 00:03:39,270 as a writer that you imitate other writers, 71 00:03:39,270 --> 00:03:41,900 and that's perfectly OK. 72 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:43,440 It's just normal. 73 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,380 You do the same with visual art. 74 00:03:46,380 --> 00:03:49,970 But I went to art school. 75 00:03:49,973 --> 00:03:51,393 I didn't go to school for writing. 76 00:03:51,390 --> 00:03:53,130 I went to art school. 77 00:03:53,130 --> 00:03:56,280 And the very first story that I wrote, 78 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,170 short story that I wrote, the school 79 00:03:58,170 --> 00:04:03,880 gave me a grant to turn it into a book to publish a book. 80 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,320 And when I say that, I mean make 30 copies. 81 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,860 And I'd type set it, and every copy was different, 82 00:04:10,860 --> 00:04:13,830 and I made a cover for each one. 83 00:04:13,830 --> 00:04:17,040 And I've always kept in touch with my writing teacher 84 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,370 from college, a man named Jim McManus. 85 00:04:20,370 --> 00:04:21,870 And I saw him a couple of years ago, 86 00:04:21,870 --> 00:04:25,170 and he said, you know, I still think about that "Atlas," 87 00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:27,090 that story that you wrote, and it 88 00:04:27,090 --> 00:04:32,670 was such a hysterical spot-on parody of a Raymond Carver 89 00:04:32,670 --> 00:04:34,590 story. 90 00:04:34,590 --> 00:04:37,650 And I was mortified because that's 91 00:04:37,650 --> 00:04:39,660 exactly what it reads like. 92 00:04:39,660 --> 00:04:42,960 I was just trying to be him. 93 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,540 And it's flattering that the teacher would 94 00:04:47,540 --> 00:04:56,520 think that I had sat down to write a parody, 95 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,580 that it was that good, but, in fact, I 96 00:04:58,580 --> 00:05:00,890 thought I was being myself. 97 00:05:08,350 --> 00:05:11,140 There's a story called "Applause, Applause" 98 00:05:11,140 --> 00:05:16,570 by Jean Thompson that I read in an anthology in the 1980s. 99 00:05:16,570 --> 00:05:21,580 And the ending of that, I-- 100 00:05:21,580 --> 00:05:26,420 "and so it begins, the sorting and testing of words. 101 00:05:26,420 --> 00:05:28,420 Remember that words are things which, 102 00:05:28,420 --> 00:05:31,480 when tinkered with properly, can represent 103 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,510 the cresting blood, the fine, living net of nerves, 104 00:05:36,510 --> 00:05:39,520 defying rain or even joy. 105 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,920 It can be done." 106 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,480 That story meant so much to me when I first read it, 107 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,020 and I absolutely love going back and reading it. 108 00:05:47,020 --> 00:05:48,940 I can't read it enough times. 109 00:05:48,940 --> 00:05:53,610 Jean Thompson is a writer who-- 110 00:05:53,606 --> 00:05:56,406 a short story writer, and she writes novels 111 00:05:56,410 --> 00:05:59,620 as well-- who just I've always thought the world of. 112 00:05:59,620 --> 00:06:03,700 Amy Hempel's "In the Cemetery Where Al Jolson is Buried" 113 00:06:03,700 --> 00:06:07,870 is something that I read so many times that I've 114 00:06:07,870 --> 00:06:12,400 memorized the ending of that. 115 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,770 Tobias Wolff's "In the Garden of the North American 116 00:06:14,770 --> 00:06:17,480 Martyrs," the very beginning of the story 117 00:06:17,478 --> 00:06:19,268 and the ending of the story-- and his story 118 00:06:19,270 --> 00:06:22,560 "Bullet in the Brain" the same. 119 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,530 And they're endings that are made of words, 120 00:06:25,528 --> 00:06:27,818 and I know that sounds goofy because if you're writing, 121 00:06:27,820 --> 00:06:29,500 it's always-- 122 00:06:29,500 --> 00:06:31,630 if you're telling a story, it's made of words. 123 00:06:31,630 --> 00:06:39,320 But, I mean, there's not a dramatic ending to the story. 124 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,140 None of the endings are summing up what you've heard. 125 00:06:43,140 --> 00:06:47,630 They're just going to a completely new place. 126 00:06:47,630 --> 00:06:50,530 They're not endings that you could have predicted when 127 00:06:50,530 --> 00:06:53,110 you started reading this story. 128 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:56,740 And I guess they're just beautiful arrangement of words 129 00:06:56,740 --> 00:06:58,330 more than anything else. 130 00:06:58,330 --> 00:07:03,770 Just to know that endings that great are possible, 131 00:07:03,770 --> 00:07:06,850 it just gives you something to aspire to, I suppose. 132 00:07:13,890 --> 00:07:18,780 When I go on tour, I always recommend somebody else's book, 133 00:07:18,780 --> 00:07:22,090 and I hold it up, and I read out loud from it, 134 00:07:22,090 --> 00:07:25,400 and I encourage people to buy it. 135 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:28,620 And it gives the evening sort of a different flavor 136 00:07:28,620 --> 00:07:32,790 because I'm reading from something that isn't mine. 137 00:07:32,790 --> 00:07:34,380 Sometimes I wonder what the person 138 00:07:34,380 --> 00:07:35,790 would think if they were in the audience 139 00:07:35,790 --> 00:07:37,870 and they heard me reading it, if they would think, 140 00:07:37,873 --> 00:07:42,273 oh my god, he's reading that all wrong or his idea of me 141 00:07:42,270 --> 00:07:48,880 is so completely wrong, his idea of who I am as a writer. 142 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:50,610 I suppose that's always possible. 143 00:07:50,610 --> 00:07:54,270 Often I invite the writer to come with me. 144 00:07:54,270 --> 00:07:58,860 Akhil Sharma is a writer who I think the world of, 145 00:07:58,860 --> 00:08:04,870 and he's written several novels in a short story collection 146 00:08:04,870 --> 00:08:09,490 and is a magnificent reader of his own work. 147 00:08:09,490 --> 00:08:14,580 One time, Otessa Moshfegh came with me, 148 00:08:14,580 --> 00:08:17,970 who wrote an amazing novel called "Eileen" 149 00:08:17,970 --> 00:08:20,610 and wrote a short story collection called 150 00:08:20,610 --> 00:08:23,940 "Homesick for Another World" that 151 00:08:23,940 --> 00:08:25,280 is one of the funniest books-- 152 00:08:28,350 --> 00:08:33,180 short story collections that I've ever read. 153 00:08:33,179 --> 00:08:34,889 And she's funny in an interesting way. 154 00:08:34,890 --> 00:08:36,980 You never catch her going like that. 155 00:08:36,980 --> 00:08:39,070 Don't you think that's funny? 156 00:08:39,070 --> 00:08:41,740 It's just not the kind of funny writer she is. 157 00:08:41,740 --> 00:08:44,760 I don't know that she considers herself to be funny. 158 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,120 But the things that happen in her stories are so strange. 159 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:54,330 I find myself shocked, and I find myself laughing out loud 160 00:08:54,330 --> 00:08:58,500 and always look forward to something new by her. 161 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:01,040 Wells Tower-- my goodness, I-- 162 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:09,000 is a short story writer who I admire so much. 163 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,090 Ann Patchett-- somebody I think the world of. 164 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:22,860 I like listening to Roxanne Gay's "Hunger" essay 165 00:09:22,860 --> 00:09:27,750 collection, just this exact sort of thing 166 00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:30,590 that I love because it made me realize-- 167 00:09:30,590 --> 00:09:34,260 it just made me aware of so many things I don't think about. 168 00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:41,590 Andrew Greer-- his novel "Less" was funny. 169 00:09:41,590 --> 00:09:42,720 It was exactly what I like. 170 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,310 It was funny and funny and funny, 171 00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:47,520 and then it was just so profound near the end. 172 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,590 You thought, gosh, where did that come from? 173 00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:53,370 And you're just sort of devastated 174 00:09:53,370 --> 00:09:55,410 at the end of the book. 175 00:09:55,410 --> 00:09:56,400 Gosh, there's so many. 176 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,380 I feel like I'm giving an Academy Award speech 177 00:09:58,380 --> 00:10:00,030 and I don't want to leave anybody out. 178 00:10:00,030 --> 00:10:01,580 It's hard to think of it right now. 179 00:10:01,580 --> 00:10:03,480 But if you look in the workbook, there's 180 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,680 a list of some of my other favorite writers.